Scrap the lot

[Tom]

A daring statement for me to make but I think that's what Crystal Dynamics needs to do with TR at this point. As a long time fan and long(ish) member of the online community since 2005, my main function has been to give incredibly detailed suggestions and arguments about what could be done setting various limits to preserve what we all loved about the classics for future games.
This time, my only demands are to make it:
- Mature
- Difficult
- Lengthy
- Complex
- Full of variety

And that's it. Everything else can be changed as much as they like.
In order for TR to be taken seriously again, I feel maybe its time we loosened the reins and see what Crystal can do for themselves. TR9 will undoubtedly be their true test. TR7 was the reboot, TRA was the remake and TRU was (or hopefully was!) the tying up of this rather uninspiring trilogy.
I've been pressing for change for a while but now there is undoubtedly growing momentum among fans and the media that something needs to give. I hope Crystal takes this seriously otherwise it might bye-bye to TR games.

[L.E. Croft]

I can only agree with you on this. The "Avalon series" was, to say the least, a complete dumbing down of what TR could be. A lot of people liked it, which is fine, there's nothing wrong with that. But many did find it uninspiring and way too easy. TRU held more difficulty than the previous two in the trilogy, but it did leave a lot to be desired. For instance in the Mediterranean Sea level where you have to dispose of the Kraken in order to get through the necessary doorway that leads you onward in the level. I was honestly expecting a huge epic battle, but there was none. The Kraken didn't try to kill Lara at all. The most difficult baddies were the undead and that was only because they tended to gang up on you in numbers.

I have to admit though that I was very impressed by the level designs of TRU on the PS3 and I also was very happy to see they ditched the interactive cutscenes and allowed you to actually control Lara through those slow motion moments where you're on the edge of death. I think there is a lot of promise for TR on the next-gen consoles, but CrystalD has to be willing to up their game. At this point I think they should look at it from a gamer's point of view not a TR fan's point of view (because they pretty much failed there anyways). No matter what they do, some TR fan is going to hate it. So they shouldn't waste their time trying to make something that's going to appeal to TR fan's. They should focus on creating something that's going to appeal to gamers. Because honestly there are a lot of gamers that hate TR. lol And I think that the turn the series took when CrystalD took the helm made them hate it even more because there was no challenge, and no reward.

Which is another thing, I didn't trek through all those levels, killing endangered species, and destroying precious archaeological sites for nothing. Oh big whoop, Lara has a new slutty outfit to wear next time she goes tomb raiding. CrystalD needs to develop a better rewards system, something people are going to enjoy. They've treated Lara like a damn Barbie doll the last two games. Which may be fun and all for those that like to play dress-up, but it's boring to the rest of us. They can still have unlockable outfits, some of them were pretty cool (like the doppleganger outfit in TRA), but that can't be the only friggin' bonus they give us. Maybe a bonus level of some kind, or a mini game system. I know there has been a lot of talk about making a two-player aspect to TR. At this point, why the hell not? They shouldn't make the entire game two-player, but I think there could be unlockable levels and characters so then you and a fellow raider can play together. Hell they could even take some of the best levels from previous TR games and turn them into unlockable levels that you can play. Actually that one would be pretty cool. So instead of remaking the entire game, they just remake a set of levels from the old games.

There are a lot of possibilities for the future of TR, but I think that everyone is going to have to make adjustments before these possibilities can come to fruition. Fans of the old and the new TR are just going to have to accept that A.) TR won't be like it was back in the days of Core, B.) CrystalD should still consider TR's heritage and respect it instead of trashing it, and C.) That it has to evolve and become something refreshing in order to survive. I am honestly open to any new aspects that can be created to keep TR fun, challenging, and interesting. Just so long as CrystalD stays true to the basis of TR, meaning that I don't want to play Tomb Raider in Space, where Lara Croft fights aliens on an abandon space station. lol But I am also open to the idea of the series just coming to an end if it can't keep up with the evolution of gaming. I'd rather enjoy the TR games as is, instead of seeing the series get trashed even more than it already has been.

[Marcus Brody]

TRU on the PS2 was awful. My son and I had rented it and boy what a waste. They shouldn't have even bothered making a version for the PS2. I noticed that a lot of game designers did that though, made a crappier version of their game for the PS2. Spider-Man Web of Shadows was pretty horrible on the PS2 as well. The only one that was still decent was Star Wars The Force Unleashed. I'm glad I told him that we should rent it first before buying. I would've been uber pissed had I wasted $40 on that crap. We're going to have to invest in getting a next-gen console. He wants a X-box 360, so we'll see. Any idea how TRU was on that?

I agree with both of you on this. Seems that TR has gotten kind of redundant. Legend and Anniversary tried to revamp the series, but I felt like they were just copying other hit adventure games such as Prince of Persia and God of War.

lol @ The slutty outfits comment, L.E. When we played Legend my wife made a lot of remarks about some of her outfits, especially the dress she wore in the Japan levels. She said "why does it seem like that with every new game she wears less clothing?" You could imagine what she thought when we unlocked the swim suit and had Lara running around those tombs in a bikini. lol

The bonus level idea sounds promising. I'd like to play some of my favorite levels from the old games with better graphics and new moves. How much do you think the developers pay attention to fan sites and the suggestions that come up on them?

[L.E. Croft]

I don't have an Xbox 360, so I have no idea, but my guess is way better than the PS2 version. lol I guess it just depends on what games you want. Certain games are for the Xbox 360 only (such as Halo) and then others are for the PS3 only (such as LittleBigPlanet). Either way though, a next-gen console is well worth the money you pay for it. The games are so much better.

And you know, I think they pay more attention than we think they do. lol I don't know if any of them have been to this site or not, but I know that some of them have visited other fan sites. Tomb Raider Forums being one of them. There have been a few CrystalD developers that have posted over there. Some more recently due to the mass layoffs. So some have been revealing details about what was cut from TRU, others posting their grievances about the company. Everything eventually comes out about the BS that goes on behind the scenes when making these games. My hope is that they'll cut the crap and start focusing on making a game worth calling Tomb Raider. Which there were quite a few members of CrystalD who genuinely wanted to improve this series, some of them being the ones that got laid off. It's the typical corporate bull that's been playing it's ruthless hand since AOD. A lot of the problems stem from Eidos, not that I codown the way some of CrystalD's developers acted when they did interviews or posted info on their blogs about TRL and TRA. Many of them unfairly bashed Core and the old games (most notably AOD). Like I said in my last post, they need to respect TR's past, it's not something you can just blow off like it never existed. But then again, it's never really about respect, it's about making money.

You figure though that with the way the economy is right now, making a profit isn't going to be easy. People can't just shell out $60 for some crappy game that's short and unchallenging. They need to give us our money's worth. Meaning they have to stop focusing on trying to be better than Core, they have to stop looking at it as a profit, and most of all they have to stop trying to please every single TR fan. Because that's just a losing situation right there. There will always be someone that isn't going to like it, plain and simple. Best to realize that now, rather than later. They need to approach it from a gamer's standpoint. Don't look at it as something that a TR fan will want to play, but something anyone will want to play. And I know Legend was suppose to be their "attempt" at doing that, but frankly how many more new fans did they bring on? Most of them are younger, 13-year-olds. Granted that there are some 13-year-olds that would mope the floor with my corpse in Halo, but the point is that around that age you're starting to get into the maturer gaming. You're no longer just playing Mario Kart. Legend was a dumbed down version of what these kids could expect from TR. So when TRU came around, there was more challenge and then they whined and complained because the puzzles were too hard.

See what happens? Always something to complain about. So why not make the game worthy of being played by the age group it's targeted towards (16+). I'm not saying that the younger players should be excluded, but TR was always targeted towards teens and adults. Legend came off as being too preteen, in my opinion. If they're going to be playing these games you should provide them with something that's going to stimulate their mind and hand-eye coordination. TRU on the PS3 used this, and for once in a long time I felt stimulated mentally by what I was playing. We live in a world full of idiots, video games are the main form of education for most kids today. So if you can't stimulate the mind through video games then all you're doing is furthering our evolution into brain-dead sacks of meat. And I'm not saying that all gaming should become educational, God forbid Mario gives me a lesson on Quatum Physics. But what I'm trying to get at here, is that games like TR require us to use our critical thinking skills, which is a very important skill to have in life. It exercises the mind, making it sharper and quicker. The mind needs a challenge, and without a challenge how will the mind function beyond what it's currently capable of?

[WaxAppoxAcelp]

Hi SukiyakiNation - welcome to the forums - I had issues in exactly the same place but playing PC using a 360 controller. I think jumping as soon as you slide may be too soon, but it is hard to judge. A lot of the jumps rely on where Lara is actually looking when you make the jump - just slightly above target seems to work most of the time - its very frustrating

[WaxAppoxAcelp]

Aye.. a lot shorter.. the cistern and the tomb of theocan have also been shortened and merged. Palace Midas is also a lot shorter. In general I like what theyve done. The layouts are a bit more logical now and theyve kept all the best bits, and created some cool puzzles.

[offinia09]

I am just learning LE and have a problem. The room sometimes spins so much that it wont stop. In another thread there was a link to a forum where a patch could be found but I went to the link and found that the link is broken.

So does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks

Gabbi